Can anybody who believes in God prove that the world could not have come about through spontaneous order?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spontaneous_order Some examples of Spontaneous order include the unhampered free market, human language (especially the English language, which has no central planner), a stateless society, and evolution. Spontaneous order is the theory that an order that appears to have been designed can emerge out of chaos and that attempts at design (such as a centrally-planned Communist economy) fail miserably. Can anybody disprove that the universe emerged through spontaneous order?
Public Comments
- So God couldn't have created this spontaneous order?
- I can neither prove nor disprove it. Proof is needed only between Christians and Athiests. It is not relevant toward my attaining enlightenment so proof of God's existence through study of creation doesn't matter to me.
- Emergent systems for the win!
- I have a little test for you. We will keep it simple and far less complex than this world. First you will need to take apart a fully functioning watch. Then, put all the pieces into a box. Put a clear lid on it so you can check the progress. Shake up the box continually. (you may have to rig up a device to do this for you) Check frequently for the progress of the spontaneous order. If you find that the pieces have come together and the watch is working as before, you may have a claim. Remember this is just a simple test, a watch is far less complex than even an amoeba not to mention all the other highly complex organism that make up this planet. Let us know the out come, all the best.
- I am suspicious of where this theory is coming from, for a start. Some of its defenders include the idols of the neocons, who got us into our present economic mess. You really think, right now, that the unhampered free market is such a great idea? You should get out more, and in particular visit Scandinavia - capitalist countries that have never believed the market should be unregulated. High taxation, relatively small gap between rich and poor, great public services, low crime rates, America has much to learn. Fortunately it now has a President capable of learning. I digress. The problem with all your examples is that the order, formed out of the preceding chaos, had raw material to build with. The "world" (I assume you mean cosmos, not just this planet) started from nothing. Big Bang theory cannot tell us what was happening 10 seconds beforehand and, as I understand it, says the very question is absurd. It seems clear enough that 10 seconds afterwards energy had been unleashed within such parameters that order would be able to emerge from the seeming chaos; the proof is that we're here. But WHY this should happen has everybody flummoxed, whatever their religious beliefs or lack of, and I wish we could all show some humility here. Even if you are correct, and the universe did emerge through spontaneous order, this does not strike me as an explanation; any more than "God created it" is an explanation. Why there should be anything rather than nothing is the ultimate mystery, and all I am asking for is acceptance of the premise that in the face of mystery it is not unreasonable to explore religious responses. Atheism basically says we're here because we're here because we're here, and if that's good enough for you, fine. It isn't enough for me.
- Before the Big Bang, whatt would be the material used for spontaneous order? What spontaneous order is accomplished in empty space? Even more so, what spontaeous order is accomplished in nothingness, not even time or space?
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